00:08
Angela: Hello and welcome to Make It Clear, a conversational podcast about all things related to water and wastewater. I'm your host, Angela Bounds, and I'm joined by my co-host, Shawn Rapp. In each episode, we'll tackle a relevant topic with facts and expert opinions and make things clear.
Hi, and thanks for listening in again. Today we're going to talk about controls. If you didn't know,
00:36
Orenco manufactures a multitude of control panels for the water industry and actually outside of our industry also. So today we've got with us Bill Cagle, who is the vice president of controls. Hi Bill, how you doing?
Bill: Hi Angela. Good, thanks.
Angela: Bill's been with us since 19...
Bill: 09 or 98, I mean.
Angela: 09? 1909.
01:06
Bill: 1998. 25 years.
Angela: It only feels like 1909 sometimes. And then Jerry, Jerry Snyder is the, I believe your title is Controls Sales Director, Sales Director for Controls. What's your...
Jerry: That sounds good. I think that's right. Or a sales manager, something like that.
Angela: Sales manager, something like that. Jerry is responsible for all control sales.
01:36
And he has been with us since, shall we just call it the eighties? No, 1991. I think some somewhere in there. Yeah. Somewhere in there. Yeah.
Angela: Somewhere in there. Not 1891, but 1991,
Jerry: Not 1891. Just, yeah.
Angela: And as always, Shawn's here with us too, to make sure that I stay in line
02:06
and that we stay on task.
Shawn: Exactly.
Angela: If this isn't any indication, it may be difficult today. Yeah. Let's jump into it. For those of you who have listened before, you know that my father is one of our founders. He actually designed our control panels for years and years and years. And some of his designs are still used to this day. And I started my career in controls.
02:35
I say career, I was 12. So I used to make control panels alongside Jerry when he started in the 90s. We've worked together for years. So we're just going to hop right in. We're going to cover a number of topics today, give you kind of an overview of what exactly controls means to us and what we do within that part of the industry. So...
Bill: And we have plenty of stories to tell on Angela,
03:06
should we need more information to fill in.
Angela: Yes, this is not the forum.
Shawn: I would love to hear those.
Angela: No, this is not the forum for that, Bill Cagle. All right, so let's start talking about panels. How about that? How about we start there? So Bill and Jerry, you guys want to talk to us a little bit about our standard line of control panels and what we currently manufacture for that
03:35
product line?
Jerry: Sure. I can dive in with standard controls. We have currently five different product lines. And the first is electromechanical, which basically that just is a big long word that means there's not a program logic controller. There's nothing of any, that has any programming. It's just relay logic. So it's a fit, form and function very similar to panels that have been built since the 40s
04:05
with relays driving everything. We have a simplex and a duplex line of those panels. Simplex is for a single pump, duplex for two pumps, typically alternating, just for even wear and tear. So from there, we graduate into panels that have controllers. Our first line with the controllers, our MVP line, there's been much speculation on what MVP stands for in our business.
04:35
So most versatile panel was the original name behind the acronym. Some call it most valuable panel, but either way.
Angela: Nope. It's versatile. We were here.
Jerry: Yeah, most versatile panel. So the MVP line has a controller that, in the industry, called a smart relay. It just gives you some inputs and outputs, and you have the ability to,
05:04
to make some adjustments to how things operate, and then some simple data logging, monitoring things. So like hours the pump has run, cycles that the pump has operated, alarm counts, power failures, things like that that we can monitor and store that data. Now, MVP line is also available for a single pump or two pumps in our standard line. And the...
05:31
what makes it unique, I guess, or differentiates it from our other lines is that it's a local only, so it's not remote. There's no remote access. It's just local access. And from there we go into our VeriComm line of control panels, which we could talk more about, I guess, later in the details, but that's a remote access residential level control panel, and our
06:01
TCOM control panels. We have a standard line of TCOM control panels that are very much built for the wastewater treatment industry for decentralized on-site. Those panels are all for that. We do have one other segment of standard panels because I said there were five. The other one is OEM, which is just brand labeled
06:25
panels, but we build those as standard. And what we call standard means that the documentation pre-exists the panel. So we already know what we're building as opposed to custom, which would be something that we create the diagram and everything simultaneously with the panel. So that's what we offer for standard panels.
Angela: So we also run what's called a UL shop.
06:53
Right? So our panels are UL approved. Do you want to talk a little bit about what it, what exactly it means to run a UL standard shop?
Jerry: Sure. We have listings… So what UL is, first of all, the Underwriters Laboratories is a third-party certification organization. They basically verify, much like the DMV would verify that you know how to drive,
07:22
and they give you a license. UL verifies that we are following a set of standards for our industry and our listing is the UL 508A, which is a subsection of the NFPA code for National Fire Protection Association. So there's a few different things about UL that it could get really down in the weeds. We won't do that, but effectively...
Angela: It can, it can. Don't do that to the people.
Jerry: Yeah.
07:52
Effectively speaking, our panels carry a UL label that verifies that we follow UL standards of the National Electric Code set out. So our panels are inherently safe. And what's unique about that is it's a third-party certification as opposed to a self-certification. So that's, you don't want to necessarily...
08:16
be driving on a highway with people who declare that they are good drivers. You want to drive on a highway with people who have some third party that declares that they are Yes. good drivers. Yes. Or effectively decent drivers, I guess.
Shawn: That’s a good comparison.
Angela: I was actually thinking that's a really good comparison. You want someone who says that they can do this, not just, Hey, I'm great.
Bill: So just out of curiosity, Angela, would it
08:44
be helpful for the audience to understand maybe what differentiates our control shop from others?
Angela: Yeah.
Shawn: absolutely.
Bill: So, one of the main things that differentiates Orenco controls from other controls manufacturers, which there are a lot of them out there, is that the parent company, the main product line, which is wastewater collection and treatment
09:13
that Orenco does, that's where a lot of our R&D comes from for controls. So unlike other panel shops, we design our controls around the practical application to furthering the development of on-site wastewater technologies or collection system technologies or municipal and commercial treatment technologies. Other panel shops don’t have that,
09:42
that benefit because they're a panel shop. That's what they do, right? They receive the specification or something from an engineer. We work with water engineers, civil, environmental, every single day. And that's core, that's been built into the fabric of our controls since the very beginning. And probably, Jerry just went through a great description of the
10:12
standard controls that we offer, but probably the one panel family, the smart controller that Orenco co-pioneered back in 2000 with the launch of VeriComm is probably one of the best examples in our standard control panel line of our research and development. Back in 2000, when everybody was hooked to a standard phone line, we launched a product that
10:40
could not only control the residential onsite wastewater treatment system, it could also monitor it over the web. That was unheard of in 2000. And today, there's over 40,000 of those systems that can call into our central servers. There's no other panel shop out there that can claim that.
11:10
Angela: So, you’re talking about VeriComm, so that's a great segue into talking about what's next for VeriComm.
Bill: Well, you know, so VeriComm was Internet of Things before there was Internet of Things, if you want to kind of put it that way. And we've been in continuous research for quite some time now and have in the wings the next generation, we hope to see of
11:41
an internet or so an Orenco internet of things for monitoring and supervisory control and data acquisition with the level of security, right, that's needed in this digital time, you know, for the digital water industry. So yeah, we're looking forward to, you know, finalizing and commercializing, you know, the next phases of our digital monitoring.
12:10
Angela: Yeah. All right. So let's switch gears a little bit and talk about custom panels. So do you want to talk about the most common or uncommon features of custom panels?
Jerry: Sure. Yeah. First I'll say that custom panels became a necessity many, many years ago because like I like to say in the, in America, in the, in the U S market and Canada included,
12:39
we tell people what we want, we don't get told what we're going to get. So custom panels grew out of the, “hey, I want your standard panel except…”, and that “except” part is what makes it custom. Some are very much a variation of our standard controls. They just want something that we don't offer with our standard controls and could be anything from…
13:08
Now, our standard controls are built with, most of them have a motor contactor that is IEC, which is the standard that it's built under. Some people still want a NEMA type of a contactor or an overload added, which makes it a motor starter instead of just a contactor. Those kind of things, little variations of a theme, or they want a different color light or a beacon light on the top,
13:35
a different type of enclosure material. Our standard panels come in fiberglass, outdoor rated panel enclosures, and sometimes they want a stainless or a painted steel enclosure. So we can accommodate all of those things. And it really runs the gamut from a variation of the standard controller, like I said, to a completely custom built-to-spec
14:00
control panel and those are more often than not in the, either in the industrial market or municipal marketplace. In industrial, a lot of facilities have their own spec that they want you to meet, clear down to the exact component they want you to use in there. Especially when it comes to the high technology components like variable speed drives or
14:28
program logic controllers, and those sorts of things. Municipal market, almost every municipality has its own spec that we need to meet. So we'll build to spec. Oftentimes, we're not direct with those markets. We are through a reseller, distributor, dealer, or somebody who works with those markets. So we'll get the plans and specs, and then we'll design and quote the panel to that specification.
14:59
In the commercial end of things and some of the previously mentioned markets, it's applicable still, is that we could possibly have some say in what they do, especially when price is king. We can offer recommendations. We call it value engineering. We can offer some recommendations on ways to either save cost or have a better functional panel as opposed to what the spec
15:28
calls for or there are, one other application for custom pals is just somebody that wants to do something, right? They just know what they want their function to be, but they have no idea how to do it. And then that's a purely a value engineering specimen from our shop where we actually do the engineering for that customer, design a panel that will do what they need it to do.
15:57
Bill: I would add to that that’s probably one of our greatest strengths is that between Jerry and some of the other engineers that Jerry works with is that that value engineering is something that our client or existing clients and potential clients really appreciate. There's been so many times when I've seen Jerry say, you know, they'll have a client make come something, you know, bring a panel spec to us that maybe they worked with
16:27
a traditional electrical engineering firm on right or a mechanical engineering firm and Jerry will look at it and say, sure, we can quote this for you like that or what if we quoted it like this, right? And it's not only a less expensive panel, right, to provide that kind of value for them but the quality is typically equal to or greater than, right, when we present that additional quote.
16:57
So, another thing I'd like to add regarding custom panels is that, Jerry, is it UL508 that restricts us to a thousand volts and below?
Jerry: Yes.
Bill: Yeah. So, the horsepower range in starting with standard panels but then leading up to custom panels is on the standard panel range, it would be, it could be fractional horsepower. A lot of Orenco’s
17:26
pump applications are half horsepower pumps, right? And we build those controls in the tens of thousands a year all the way up to, I don't know, I was trying to think of what is the biggest horsepower panel I think that we've built that's north of 500, isn't it?
Jerry: No, yeah, 550 horsepower is the largest built.
Bill: 550, right. And some of those panels,
17:54
one in particular, we actually built four of them. But these panels were literally, you know, 12 feet long, seven or six feet tall and they weighed two tons each.
Shawn: Oh my gosh.
Bill: They had four drives in them. They left on flatbed trucks.
Shawn: Wow.
Bill: So, that gives you just kind of a range, right, of the types of panels, you know, that we can build and we do build.
18:23
But the other thing, and again, I'm kind of singing Jerry's praises is that many times our clients come to us, especially our clients that we maybe private label for, and they'll have custom panels that Jerry and the engineers standardize their design for them. Right? They work with them to standardize their design and that makes them more competitive in the market.
Shawn: Sure.
18:51
Shawn: Those stories like that one you were telling about those huge panels, Bill, those are kind of things that really kind of piqued my interest. I know that there are other people that like hearing those kinds of things too. So are there any applications or projects that really have stood out to you guys that you've worked with or know about? Just kind of interesting things.
Bill: What about the one in Dubai, Jerry?
Jery: Yeah, well, we get into the water market, freshwater market, and mostly we're doing one of two things. We're either boosting pressure,
19:22
or just pumping a mass amount of water at one time. So like Bill mentioned, the 550 horsepower pumps, those are for dewatering. And the only time you'd ever have that kind of mass amount of water is a rain event or a flood or whatever. And so that's what those are for, is for dewatering after a big rain event. One of the fun ones that we built was a little smaller, 350 horsepower, two pumps that
19:52
are at the Bristol Motor Speedways. So when it rains in Bristol, all that water just goes to one place and they have to pump it out and get it out of their fast or they'll have a flood situation. And so that's, that's all that's for those things sit idle 99% of the time. And then they come on and just pump mass amounts of water. But yeah, the one in Dubai was to pressurize the building, Burj Dubai
20:21
building for their fresh water to, I don't know how many floors they have, like 109 or something like that, some silly amount of.
Bill: Yeah.
Jerry: But yeah, and it was in stages. So one pump station pumped up to a certain floor, which pumps on up to another floor and so on and so forth. I think there were five stages, if I remember right, but that's a, not a common, you know, we don't have to sell in those panels every day, but
20:49
It's fun when you do those. That's kind of fun. Makes it a little interesting.
Angela: So you guys have some new tools that you've been working on that you're going to put out, correct? You want to talk about those?
Bill: So a while back, Jerry and I had discussed coming up with a new type of online tool.
21:14
We have an online quoter right now that's mainly checking boxes and when someone goes in and checks some boxes and says, hey, I've got this horsepower pump or maybe they're filling it in, it then gets transmitted to one of Jerry's sales guys that they do an estimate with. Jerry and I had a vision to graduate or evolve to the next level and come up with a configure
21:43
price quota or what we call the CPQ tool. And that tool is just now being introduced into the market. Probably one of the greatest features, and again, I'm gonna champion Jerry on this, is that one of the ideas that he had for the configure price quota is that, we recognize that a lot of the people that we deal with that order control panels from us,
22:12
they're pump guys and they're really good at it, right? They understand pumps and pump motors and pump curves really well. The controls part of it is it's black box. It's kind of black box magic stuff, right? It's like, man, I just, you know, I don't really wanna have to understand that. So starting with that type of a mindset that let's make this as easy as we possibly can for our clients.
22:40
Jerry came up with the idea of let's preload the pump information into the CPQ. So for our clients, they can preload their pump information and typically it would be their pump model number and then horsepower, phase and voltage. Am I missing anything, Jerry?
Jerry: Yeah, either or. I mean, if they know their pump model number, they can enter the pump model number or they could search by their...
23:09
their phase voltage and horsepower, and then they can find the control panels that will work with that particular pump.
Bill: Yeah. It starts to choose that for them and say, hey, here's the panel families, you know, that'll work with your pump.
Shawn: Wow.
Bill: And then from there, they can select the features that they want with their control panel. So...
23:37
maybe elapsed time meters, heaters, digital counters, you know, those types of things. And then at the end, right there, they've got it configured. If it falls within our standard panel range, they can get a price immediately. If they choose features that maybe takes it into the custom panel range, it takes them over to the custom panels and they can, you know, continue to finish out the request for quote.
24:07
And then our estimators to get back to them relatively quickly and get them a quotation.
Shawn: Wow, that makes so much sense.
Angela: Yeah, it makes a ton of sense. I think it'll be a great time saver. Make things a lot more fluid and easy.
Bill: Yeah, the streamlining of being able to do that, I mean, especially with the custom panel market, one of the one of the toughest things about it is trying to get
24:36
the necessary information to give them an accurate quote. So having everything on the screen right there in front of them and even having our guys walk through, if a client needs to be walked through, it's just a great interface for learning about controls and even maybe learning about features and things like that that they weren't familiar with. And then we can address their application that they have a need for controls on.
25:05
Shawn: Now, did you say that that's available now, or is it just being rolled out?
Bill: It's just being rolled out. Yeah.
Shawn: Nice. And where can they find it?
Jerry: Well, our plan is to actually preview it with customers. And so we plan to contact them, our existing channel partners, and introduce them to it. But it's already available at orencocontrols.com/
25:32
quoter, or no, actually, sorry, it's Quoter-, wait, hold on, let me find it. So I get the right address. Quoter, it's, did I mention that I'm in my, anyway. Quoter.orencocontrols.com how's that?
Angela: There you go. All right, is there anything else you guys wanna share with our listeners about controls right now? Of course, these guys are always open for phone calls or emails
26:01
to answer any questions you have on controls. But is there anything else that you want them to know?
Jerry: No, just that we're available for more information or if anybody has questions on controls, or also we can do a little light training over Teams and even be available to visit if they have a controls need that,
26:31
that we might build to fulfill for them.
Shawn: Awesome.
Angela: Perfect. They can always be reached 800-348-9843. They can get you through to them. What were you gonna say, Bill?
Bill: Oh, I might just add that there are some clients out there that have an application where, you know, they may need a certain volume of control panels built for them on a monthly or
26:59
quarterly or annual basis. And what may be surprising to them is that in those types of high-volume applications, typically we work with them on the initial design and that's at no charge. Now it may eventually graduate into something that needs to be where the engineering would have to be covered. But, when they have applications like that,
27:28
and we have clients that we private label for that we build over 2,000 panels a year for. So, we're happy to do that for them initially to get them that design and hopefully that fits their application and makes them competitive in the market. And as you were stating earlier, Angela, just to...
27:56
Angela: He knows my name, I swear.
Bill: Just to re-emphasize is that the main market that we serve is water and wastewater, but we are also very diversified in other markets. Jerry was talking about dewatering. We do mind dewatering applications. Jerry, what are some of the other applications that we're doing?
28:26
Jerry: Well, mostly what we do is move water, whether it's fresh water or wastewater, but we do get out of water into machine tool control. We do some, a few other different types of control, the controlling process, valves, maybe things like that. But then a totally different parallel market is solar. We, because of our, just our manufacturing efficiencies, we can be efficient in other markets like the solar market in that
28:54
We build combiners to combine lots of wires with solar, and all of those strings need to be wired through a combiner to bring them out to larger wire or a common wire. And so we get into that area, but we usually add value to those. We're not just people that throw metal in a box and call it something. We're monitoring those. So those are combiners that monitor the power generating
29:24
capabilities of the strings, the solar strings. So I mean, that's kind of a, maybe those terms aren't common to everyone, but it's a market that we work in.
Angela: I think the moral of the story is, if you have an application, just ask. If you have a need for a controller of any kind, just ask. We'll let you know if it's not something that we think we can do or that we think we should do.
29:54
We'll let you know. But if you have a need, just ask.
Bill: Absolutely. And if it's something, Angela, that we don't do very well, we will direct them to our competitors. We have competitors that we work with very well and we want them to get the right, you know, solution for their application. We're not afraid of that. The other thing is, and again, I just I want to make this clear because we do have competitors out there.
30:23
Panel shops that they kind of lost their, I guess their way in, hey, what is it that you guys actually do? We, Orenco Controls is a manufacturer. Some of our competitors have ventured into integration. We don't do integration. We're happy to work with integrators and we have guys on staff that do a lot of the programming to help complement integrators.
30:52
We don't do integration. There are great companies out there that do integration. We're more than happy to compliment them.
Angela: All right, so thanks for joining us guys and listeners. We always appreciate that you're here. As I said, if you have any questions for them, please feel free to call 800-348-9843 and ask for Jerry.
Angela: We wanna thank you again for joining us today.
31:19
Before you go, don't forget to subscribe where you listen to podcasts. So you're notified when new episodes are posted. Also, you can leave your comments or suggestions through the contact link on our website, www.orenco.com. Until next time, have a great day.