00:09
Hello and welcome to Make It Clear, a conversational podcast about all things related to water and wastewater. I'm your host, Shawn Rapp, and in each episode, I'll be joined by new guests and co-hosts as we tackle relevant wastewater industry topics with facts and expert opinions to make things clear.
Shawn: Hey there and welcome back. My name is Shawn. I'm the host of the podcast. And today I'm talking with Glenn Smith, who is the head of our writers group here at Orenco Systems.
00:37
and with Cory Lyon, who is on our product management team. And why don't you guys talk a little bit more about what you do and who you are.
Glenn: I'm Glenn Smith. I head up our communications team for the Orenco side of the Infiltrator house and have been in the technical writing field, instructional writing field, specs writing field, et cetera, et cetera, for longer than I can probably remember.
01:07
Shawn: I think several of us are in that same boat.
Glenn: Oh, yes.
Shawn: How about you, Cory?
Cory: It was good to see you both again at the same time.
Shawn: Yeah, you too.
Cory: For myself, some of you know I've worked at Orenco a long time, most of it through sales and sales leadership positions in the last couple of years. I was asked to head up our product management group here at Orenco Systems. And now we're partnered with our joint product management team across Infiltrator and Orenco.
01:35
One of the primary things we do aside from managing our portfolio of products and what solutions our customers need and identifying those by working with their customers is we also want to make sure that we're providing all the things that come with those products, all that instructions, the drawings, you know, the illustrations that they might need. And a lot of those things, you know, they might get tossed in the first 30 seconds of a product getting out of the box, but they're all the things that people expect to have with their products.
Shawn: Exactly. Exactly. All right. So,
02:03
In today's episode, we wanted to talk about industry tools, but something beyond what people would normally think of as an industry tool. Like when we think of tools in the wastewater industry, we typically think of things like backhoes and power tools, shovels, those kinds of things. But there are other things that can be considered tools. And today, one of those things we want to talk about is documentation. So while preparing for this episode, I counted out dozens and dozens of documents that we provide
02:32
that are what I would consider tools in their own right. And it really doesn't matter if it's a design guide, a wiring diagram, an O &M manual, or a troubleshooting guide. The purpose is the same. We're doing it to help somebody do something or making these documents to help somebody do something, to make a decision, complete a task, solve a problem. So that's what we're talking about today is documentation as one of the most important, often overlooked tools in the wastewater industry.
03:02
you were just mentioning about that paperwork that comes in the box. And a lot of times, you know, you, get that part at the job site, they open it up, they grab the part, there's a paper in there. It just goes back in the box and it's a piece of paper until you need it.
Cory: Right.
Shawn: So, so according to your thoughts, what does document or when does documentation stop being just paperwork and what does it start being a tool?
03:31
Cory: I'll jump in on this a little bit. (Glenn: Sure.) Having been in the field, you're exactly right. Usually when you're wanting to confirm something or something doesn't quite look right, or it could be as simple as like, did I get all the right parts and pieces to this product that I'm about to install or assemble? You know, want to make sure that you have the first thing. So that's a, that's a big one, but it can also pop up at other times too. Like when you're pulling it all together, maybe you're handing it off to the owner. (Shawn: Right.) Right. You know,
04:01
The documentation, the other place it tends to come out, at least in my world, is when you do that quick check, you get your first quick answer or two you need, but then you don't know what your future self is going to need. So I've often said, all right, I'm going to understand that I'm a human, I'm fallible. I'm going to put this aside for later because future self...
04:24
might want this.
Shawn: Yes, exactly.
Cory: And he's going to curse past self...
Shawn: If we don't have that.
Cory: If today I don't put that aside.
Shawn: That's right.
Cory: Even if I don't look at it, right? I'm going to put it together. I'm going to put it in like a, the seat of the truck, something like that.
Shawn: Yep. Yep. For sure.
Glenn: And in some cases, documentation is a tool even before you get to the job site. If you are a designer, an engineer, or if you're a contractor installer, time is money.
04:53
And installing and using the right equipment and the right products in the right combinations is critical. There's that before you open the box documentation, your specifications, your design aids and other tools like that that save you time and money and create an environment for success through their use.
Shawn: Yeah, absolutely.
05:21
We know that all documents really are important in one way or another, whether people see them that way or not. But in your opinion, what's the most overlooked type or category of document in our industry? Of all the stuff that we send out to anybody, which one do you think is probably the most overlooked?
Cory: I think we're both going to have an interesting perspective on this. I'll let you go first, Glenn.
Glenn: I'd say instructions. (Shawn: OK.) Because everybody knows how they're doing something.
05:50
until the instructions are buried three feet deep in the pit and you've forgotten how to do that one thing. There's my quick answer.
Cory: Yeah. To your point, I thought we'd disagree a little bit, but maybe not as much. Like if you've done something a lot, you really like a product, you get used to it. You may not notice a change to the procedure to put that product in or a new feature about it that maybe you missed or forgot about.
06:20
So that's one. One of the big ones that I think often gets overlooked is, you know, keeping that service record history of something. You know, I'm always impressed by people who are really into like motor vehicles, motor sports, those folks, they have immaculate records on their, on their toys. granted wastewater infrastructure is not as cool, not always as fun, can be cool, not always as fun. But having that service history.
06:49
Super handy for yourself or the client. It's a value add to the client.
Shawn: For sure. Yeah.
Cory: Hey, we started it up on this date. Here's what we had stuff as simple as model numbers. Like Glenn, you'll speak to this probably later. A lot of instructions are multipurpose and they might list multiple models, something as simple as highlighting or circling and red pen, which model was installed.
Shawn: Oh, that's really good.
Cory: Super helpful for future people.
Shawn: Yeah, for sure.
Cory: Because I know myself,
07:17
Cory from five years ago probably doesn't remember what pump did he reinstall in a system versus today.
Shawn: Right. That is definitely a often overlooked part that is rather important.
Cory: Yeah. I mean, it's everything from trying to avoid that headache on a Sunday afternoon for whether it's yourself as the installer who gets a callback or the owner all the way up to a utility.
07:44
Shawn: Sure.
Cory: You if you're a utility, you're going to want to know what do we have deployed as asset management?
Shawn: Oh, yeah.
Cory: You know, and that stuff pays off because then you can make really good financial decisions later. You can save yourself time and money or just sheer frustration.
Shawn: Glenn, this is probably a good one for you, but how has documentation evolved over the years as far as things we've been involved with?
Glenn: Well, I think there's a big push to simplify a lot of documentation. We live in an age where everybody is
08:14
TikTok oriented. (Shawn: sure.) You know, quicker is better.
Shawn: If you can't find it in a two minute video then...
Glenn: Yeah. I know with our materials, we work really hard to make our stuff as visually based as possible with as easily digestible information as possible. We try to… we try to not, you know, and one of the, one of the interesting things about working with engineers,
08:43
Are there any engineers that are going to listen to this? (Shawn: Maybe) We've, we've worked really hard to move away from long paragraphical styles in, in writing, use a little bit of white space, break things up, choose words wisely so that people can quickly understand things. And as we, as we move into a world where more and more of our customers speak languages other than English, for example, that
09:11
that simple, straightforward language and illustration heavy type documentation is super handy. And you're not going to get away from a lot of complex, boring stuff in a, in a specification, for example. But even there, we try to clarify and cut down on the verbal noise when we, when we do stuff. I mean, your time is money. And if you spend a lot of time trying to read through a bunch of
09:42
alphabet soup writing. (Shawn: Right.) It doesn't do you or us for that matter any good.
Shawn: Sure. Cory, maybe from the product management side, have you noticed documentation evolution or is that something you guys have been working on actively or…?
Cory: Yeah, actually. And it's on two fronts. One, we've definitely seen a change in recent years where manufacturers are getting more comfortable providing things like QR codes, better, more durable labels.
10:10
that are directly on the products and so forth. And so we've actually been discussing that a lot in our team of like, you know, what can we do to maybe incorporate some of those things in the future to what we're doing because contractors and customers really respond well to that. And again, it's that thing of, makes it simple, more intuitive. So that's the biggest trend we've seen is people embedding, you know, guide points and hints either physically into the product, you know, like something as simple as a design affordance, like
10:39
a handle only turns one way to like a label or, you know, safety warning that's directly embedded on the product or my favorite one, QR codes. I know, we haven't had a lot of that at Orenco historically, but you know, there's always the future possibility, right? And everyone has got a cell phone with them these days.
Shawn: Pretty much. Yeah.
Cory: Yeah. I rarely have my laptop with me anymore. It's a mobile device. And so being able to grab that
11:07
QR code, look at the PDF really quick and then get back to work, I think would be huge.
Glenn: Shawn and I were actually at an install for an infiltrator tank.
Shawn: Yeah, we were.
Glenn: A couple of days ago. And I was really impressed by some of the built-in instructional aids in the tank itself, arrows telling you which way things were going and how to orient stuff. just like you're talking about, they had a QR code on it.
11:36
Easy access to the most up to date instructions available because they feed out of a library. Online and you just there's no wondering whether you're you're dealing with stale information. You just get it right there. It's super handy. It saves time. It's it saves paper, And it's there when you need it.
Shawn: Well, I think we're finding it's happening slowly over the last couple of years, but I mean it's becoming much more of a thing where the
12:04
way we're producing information and providing it to customers is becoming evergreen. By that I mean they have a QR code that they scan, but it's the latest version of the document. They don't have to have an old version of the document. They can scan that and it's if they throw their, you know, throw their instructions away, they can scan something and get that new copy.
Cory: Which is really powerful when you think about it from the point of view of like,
12:30
checking any inaccuracies or even something as simple as a technical bulletin.
Shawn: Sure, sure.
Cory: Like, hey, we had to make a substitution. This bracket is now changed. You can slap that on page one. (Shawn: Right.) Whereas before, you'd have to hope that that information caught up to the user.
Shawn: Right. Yeah, for sure. All right. I'm going to read off a list of things, and I wanted to see if you guys agree with this. And if you do or don't, maybe you can expound on it a little bit.
12:59
Looking at what good documentation actually looks like is that the audience is obvious. The purpose is clear. The information is findable. The visuals do real work. The instructions reflect actual conditions. And the level of detail matches the task. Overall, do you think that would be correct?
Glenn: I think that's pretty reasonable, really.
13:24
You'll we've all seen we've all seen sets of you know, it's easy to pick on instructions. So I'm just gonna go with that. We've all seen instructions that were absolute garbage and full of visual noise and clutter Some of the folks listening to the podcast may remember back to the old Chilton's automotive manuals Where you'd get a black-and-white photo that could have been the Loch Ness monster Or it might have been the carburetor that you were trying to work on you really couldn't tell right? There might be a couple of arrows in there to
13:54
help with your confusion, whether that's to confuse you more or not remains to be seen. But clarity of purpose, whether it's an image or the writing is super essential. Anything we can do to help our customers really helps us in the long run.
Shawn: Yeah. I agree.
Cory: Yeah. And that might be counterintuitive at times. Glenn, as you and I have come across working with some customers and
14:22
You know, kind of looking at how Orenco used to approach a lot of things where we want to give everyone all the information we possibly could, which is great, super well intended. Sometimes to achieve clarity, you need to move the information to somewhere else.
Shawn: Explain that.
Cory: So, for example, if we were giving people advice on how to install, like, let's say a control panel, we have a short table that says, Hey, reminder, these are the wire gauge sizes you should be thinking about.
14:51
on these different distance runs to handle your voltage drop. There was a point in time where we included a lot more information.
Shawn: That is true. Yeah.
Cory: And while helpful in some cases, it could often just slow people down and raise questions that don't need to be addressed right then and
Shawn: Yeah, lot of extraneous stuff.
Cory: Exactly. So it's helpful in some cases, but sometimes the best thing to do is be a good editor and really kind of get to just the point at hand.
15:18
For anything else, just point people to where they gotta go versus trying to shove everything into some big manual.
Shawn: That makes sense. All right. Well, good deal. Thank you, gentlemen, for joining me today on this. Just kind of a final thought here. Documentation is more than just the paper sitting in the box of the binder. In many cases, it is what makes other tools usable. A pump, control panel,
15:43
treatment process or design method can only deliver its full value when people understand how to select it, apply it, install it, and troubleshoot it. So on behalf of Glenn, Cory, and myself, thanks for spending time with us today. Please join us for another episode of Make It Clear.
We want to thank you again for joining us today. Before you go, don't forget to subscribe where you listen to podcasts so you're notified when new episodes are posted. Also, if you have any comments or suggestions,
16:12
you can leave us a message through the contact link on our website www.orenco.com. Until next time, have a great day.